Mod "Rus 13-century"

[Jek]

Hi everyone! I'm glad, I've found Polish M&B forum.
So, I have one case, and you can be in a great assistance with it. The case Is, that russian community makes the mod, which called "Rus 13th-century"
The mod have a lot of features, but the main feature, that we want, that map, factions, troops and  ammos were closely connected to what realy was in this period.
Work was started in october 2008 and now mod is on stage "close alfa version"
Some screenshots: http://rusmnb.ru/gallery-history_mod-screens.php
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUwAXC4W0Mo
Discussion (if you know russian): http://rusmnb.ru/forum/index.php?board=11.0

There 4 factions now: Rus, Teutonic order, Poland and Golden Horde.
We work up Polish troop-tree and we need some additional information about polish armies in that period (early 13th-century).

So, can you please give any materials (pics, descriptions ect.) about what kind of troops were exist in that period and what weapons and armors they had in early 13th-century.
For example:
Osprey "Medieval Polish Armies" http://www.3ebooks.com/Osprey-Men-At-Arms-Series-445_2765.html
http://radikal.ru/F/s51.radikal.ru/i134/0810/95/15ef099850ae.jpg.html - Polish troops in 12th and 13th century (whith descriptions)
http://s44.radikal.ru/i103/0811/b2/73c3de1b0402t.jpg Konrad I Mazowiecki
If someone have fotos of Polish helmets from that period (like this X-th century helm http://radikal.ru/F/s39.radikal.ru/i084/0811/ab/b0ee2bee6e82.jpg.html) - it would be greatful!

More concretic qestions:
1) Poland have a big influence from Bohemia and other German states. Yes or No?
2) Crossbow is more useble in that period, than bow. Yes or No?
3) If there exist any type of Infantry in Poland, or It was mainly cavalary?
3) Type of Polish cavalary (can you please comment it)
-Noble (like knights)
-Mounted Crossbowmen
- Light cavalary with javelins
 
As I said, we realy want to see this mod as a "Historical Mod", so our team would be glad to receive any "poland 13th-century" information.

[Dzumol]

You need infromation about polish troops? (sorry, i don't speak english)

[Amoresso]

tak właśnie o to mu chodzi...
I don't know much about XIII century but i try to answer your questions.
1) No, Poland had low influance from west in XIII century.
2) yes
3) Mailnly cavalary, if in polish army was infranty, it was milita with spears and halberds, very rare were heavy troops
4) Noble- heavy cavalary with strong horse, good armor, sword and lance
    Light cavalary - it was generaly mercenary from lithuania or tatars
    Mounted crossbowman - i don't know ;P

[Jek]

You need infromation about polish troops? (sorry, i don't speak english)

Yes, all information about polish troops in early 13th century, and their weapons and armors.

Troop tree for example. (all troops are devided on troops, which can be hired from villlages, towns and castlses):

Village troop tree:

Pesant ---- footman ------- veteran_footman (tarczownic)
                            --------- archer (piechota strzelcza)

Town troop tree:

militia------watchman--------town_infantry-------heavy_town_infantry
                           ---------crossbowman-------heavy_crossbowman-----------mounted_crossbowman

Castle troop tree:

zhovnir---------heyduck\ochroniarzem
vlodik-----------pan---------------------------mozhnovladec

Can someone please comment it? Any ideas about names?

Did Poland have horse_archers in 13th century?

[zue dazy]

Battle of Legnica:
http://wroclaw.hydral.com.pl/foto/76/76069.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e2/Legnica.JPG/380px-Legnica.JPG
http://wroclaw.hydral.com.pl/foto/76/76068.jpg
Helmets:
http://www.rycerze.org/rola_uzbrojenia/ryc10.9.jpg
http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plik:Helm_garnczkowy.jpg

Norman helmet. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/pl/thumb/2/2a/Piecz%C4%99%C4%87_Przemys%C5%82a_II.jpg/200px-Piecz%C4%99%C4%87_Przemys%C5%82a_II.jpg
Przemysl II sigil (1295)

Chain mail coif

[Dzumol]

 Famous Polish troop is pikeman

[Jan Rycerz]

Powiem po Polsku jak ktoś będzie chciał ten przetłumaczy

Polskie siły był dość podobne do sił zachodnich podobne uzbrojenie (jedynie mazowsze trochę się różniło bardziej wschodnie aczkolwiek i tam dało się wyczuć wymieszanie obu ,,uzbrojeń).Proponuje wziąść trochę uzbrojenia z modu crusader.Raczej w XIII wieku nie było szlachty a rycerstwo (byli szlachetnie urodzeni ale to co innego).Wydaje mi się ,że Polska nie posiadała czegoś takiego jak łuczniczy koni możliwe ,że byli to najemnicy tak samo jak kusznicy koni

[Amoresso]

In XIII century weren't  horse archers in Poland. If they were, they were mercenaries.
Armour of polish nobles was similar to armour of west knights. Chain armor and great helmet.
For peasants and milita was light armor, sometimes chain mail, and open helmets.

village troop tree and town troop tree are quite good.
I don't know what to say about castle troop tree.

[Marat]

Sorry I can't find site in english but you can take units from Medieval Total War II:
http://www.totalwar.org.pl/indexeng.php?ArtId=596

and famous polish knight: Zawisza Czarny
http://pl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Plik:Zawisza_Czarny_z_Garbowa.JPG&filetimestamp=20080227194055

Village troop tree:

Pesant ---- footman ------- veteran_footman (tarczownic)
                            --------- archer (piechota strzelcza)

Town troop tree:

militia------watchman--------town_infantry-------heavy_town_infantry
                           ---------crossbowman-------heavy_crossbowman-----------mounted_crossbowman

Castle troop tree:

zhovnir---------heyduck\ochroniarzem
vlodik-----------pan---------------------------mozhnovladec

Town troop tree:
Peasant .......> Woodsmen .........>Tarczownik .......>polish Heavy  Infantry
                     Peasant archer  .......> polish Archer (piechota strzelcza )
                                         
Town troop tree:
town militia .........>spear militia ......>Halberd Militia
                .........> crossbow militia .......> Elite crossbow militia
                                                 
castle troop tree:
 Polish Retainers......>Hussars.....>Polish Guard

Mounted crossbowman

Polish Nobles......>Polish Knights

Mercenaries:
Lithuania Archers.....> Lithuania Mounted Archers
Latvian Crossbowman
Boyars
Tatars....> Tatar Lancers (mounted)
       .....> Tatar Archers(mounted)

I don't have any more ideas.
     

[zue dazy]

Zawisza Czarny and Husars aren't from XIII century.
My knowalde about this peroid is like my eanglish (not good;P).There isn't many sources about that times, but we take "military style" from west, but it came to us after something about 50 years, so when something was used in Western Europe in 1200 year in Poland was in 1240-1250. For example norman helmet started disapear at end of XII century, but it was used in XIII century, becouse  not everyone can  buy new armors. If i must compare Polish army with Mount & Blade factions, it will be something between Swadians, and Vaegirs (without gjerumnd/nordic helmets) I try look for more graphics in my books, maybe i will find something, but i don't promise anything. And look out for osprays, becouse sometimes their draws are fictions, and imaginations of the drawer.
I have hope you understand what I wrote, and it will be useful:)
Greetings;)

[Mroczny Pieróg]

There 4 factions now: Rus, Teutonic order, Poland and Golden Horde.

Make Lithuana, in Eastern Europ in XIII century Lithuana was a very important!


Btw.
In XIII century Poland has not been a one united kingdom -.^
http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polska_w_okresie_rozbicia_dzielnicowego (sorry but this article not exist in english wiki)

PS.I know, my english is bad ;O

[Jek]

Thank's to all! zue dazy , pics are awesome! Just what I'm looking for! Thank's a lot!

Make Lithuana, in Eastern Europ in XIII century Lithuana was a very important!

I know, but for some game-play reasons now the are very hard to make Lithuana as a playble nation. But we are looking for ways, how to make it playble, and maybe later we include Lithuana in the mod.

So, about troop tree. There are some changes.

Village troop tree:
Pesant (Chłop) ---- footman (Kmet) ------- veteran_footman (tarczownic)
                                                  --------- archer (piechota strzelcza)

Town troop tree:
militia------watchman--------town_infantry-------town_horseman
                           ---------crossbowman-------mounted_crossbowman

Castle troop tree:
zhovnir-----------------------------------heyduck\ochroniarzem
young_noble-----------noble ---------------------------elite_noble

some descriptions:
zhovnir - medium-type horsman with javelins
heyduck - heavy-type horsman

The idea of changes is to make polish army more cavalary oriented.

As you see, the are some polish names for village troop tree and for "non-noble castle cavalary" . Can you, please, give polish names for town troop tree and for "noble castle cavalary". For example, for Teutonic order noble cavalary we have "squire-----half_brother_knight------brother_knight".

And another important case: Can you, please, give the examples (pics, descriptions ect.) of such types of armor, like padded_leather, padded_cloth, studded_leather_coat (any other medium-type and light-tipe armor), wich were used by polish troops in early 13th century

[kosanr1]

Maybe this will be useful  Polish Knight's XIII century




Może ktoś by mu opisał krótko o rozbiciu dzielnicowym i o Krzyżakach, bo mój angielski jest tragiczny.

[Jek]

kosanr1 , you may describe it on Polish. If on-line translator will not help me, I'll try to find someone, who make it.
Thank's for pics by the way!

[Marat]

O kurfa pomyliłem się!
Myślałem że ten mod jest o XIV wieku, dlatego w moim poście pojawia się Husaria i Zawisza Czarny.
Wybaczcie.